1. Short Paragraph – Personal Reflection: Before reading the selection from Plato write at least one full paragraph on this question: Why do you think Plato (or anyone else) would want to censor Homer (yesterday the question was about Hesiod)? You might want to think about Achilles as a "hero," and why or why not his personal characteristics are something that should be promoted, or not.
I think that Plato or any one else would want to censor Homer because he creates a wrong image of the people, for example Achilles. He makes people think that Achilles is more important than gods. He makes him seem like if he is the most important character. Then the gods tokk Achilles side that showed them that they are unfair.
a. According to Plato, what are some aspects of poetry that should be banned and why? In other words, how can poetry undermine the education of a Guardian?
He does not agree with Homer writing about the after life. Plato believes that it doesn't exist.
And
b. What should poetry “teach” and why? Poetry should teach that a man is not perfect and that he has knowledge to teach whats right.
4. If you were talking to Plato what would you say to him? Do you agree with his ideas? Do you think poetry, or literature in general, should be put to the purposes that he says it should?
if i would talk to Plato i would say that i totally agree with him and that he is right. I think that they should censor Homer and the Hesiod. I kind of think that they are interesting to read but i do agree with Plato that they make a wrong image about the gods.
Wednesday, March 28, 2007
3/28 Republic assignment
1. Short Paragraph – Personal Reflection: Before reading the selection from Plato write at least one full paragraph on this question: Why do you think Plato (or anyone else) would want to censor Homer (yesterday the question was about Hesiod)? You might want to think about Achilles as a "hero," and why or why not his personal characteristics are something that should be promoted, or not.
I think that Plato or any one else would want to censor Homer because he creates a wrong image of the people, for example Achilles. He makes people think that Achilles is more important than gods. He makes him seem like if he is the most important character. Then the gods tokk Achilles side that showed them that they are unfair.
a. According to Plato, what are some aspects of poetry that should be banned and why? In other words, how can poetry undermine the education of a Guardian?
He does not agree with Homer writing about the after life. Plato believes that it doesn't exist.
And
b. What should poetry “teach” and why? Poetry should teach that a man is not perfect and that he has knowledge to teach whats right.
4. If you were talking to Plato what would you say to him? Do you agree with his ideas? Do you think poetry, or literature in general, should be put to the purposes that he says it should?
if i would talk to Plato i would say that i totally agree with him and that he is right. I think that they should censor Homer and the Hesiod. I kind of think that they are interesting to read but i do agree with Plato that they make a wrong image about the gods.
I think that Plato or any one else would want to censor Homer because he creates a wrong image of the people, for example Achilles. He makes people think that Achilles is more important than gods. He makes him seem like if he is the most important character. Then the gods tokk Achilles side that showed them that they are unfair.
a. According to Plato, what are some aspects of poetry that should be banned and why? In other words, how can poetry undermine the education of a Guardian?
He does not agree with Homer writing about the after life. Plato believes that it doesn't exist.
And
b. What should poetry “teach” and why? Poetry should teach that a man is not perfect and that he has knowledge to teach whats right.
4. If you were talking to Plato what would you say to him? Do you agree with his ideas? Do you think poetry, or literature in general, should be put to the purposes that he says it should?
if i would talk to Plato i would say that i totally agree with him and that he is right. I think that they should censor Homer and the Hesiod. I kind of think that they are interesting to read but i do agree with Plato that they make a wrong image about the gods.
3/27 Republic assignment
1. Short Paragraph – Personal Reflection: Before reading the selection from Plato write at least one full paragraph on this question: Why do you think Plato (or anyone else) would want to censor Hesiod? Remember that Hesiod was the poet who wrote about the fight between the gods and the titans.
I think that Plato or any one else would want to censor Hesiod because it talks bad about the gods and goddesses. He would write poetry talkin about what the gods did. For example he said that fathers would eat their children and that husbands would cheat on their wifes. He would write things that would make people think that the gods were basically like humans because they did what humans do today but even worst because they kill their own children for power. Plato writes about how the gods should be seen as good inmortal people.
a. What are Homer and Hesiod guilty of?
They are guilty of presenting a wrong image of the gods.
And
b. What are the two main characteristics of “god” and what are the laws/principles of story telling based on those characteristics?
The to main characteristics that the gods have are that they never tell lies and that and that gods are the cause, not of all things, but only the good.
4. Compare what you wrote in your personal reflection above (#1) with what Plato wrote. How close were you to what Plato wrote?
I think that i was very close to what Plato thought. I was actually right. because if you think about it what i wrote makes sense.
I think that Plato or any one else would want to censor Hesiod because it talks bad about the gods and goddesses. He would write poetry talkin about what the gods did. For example he said that fathers would eat their children and that husbands would cheat on their wifes. He would write things that would make people think that the gods were basically like humans because they did what humans do today but even worst because they kill their own children for power. Plato writes about how the gods should be seen as good inmortal people.
a. What are Homer and Hesiod guilty of?
They are guilty of presenting a wrong image of the gods.
And
b. What are the two main characteristics of “god” and what are the laws/principles of story telling based on those characteristics?
The to main characteristics that the gods have are that they never tell lies and that and that gods are the cause, not of all things, but only the good.
4. Compare what you wrote in your personal reflection above (#1) with what Plato wrote. How close were you to what Plato wrote?
I think that i was very close to what Plato thought. I was actually right. because if you think about it what i wrote makes sense.
Wednesday, March 21, 2007
Socratic Seminar
If you act justly, will you find happiness? (Socrates)
I think that if you act justly you can find happiness but i also think that if you act unjustice you will also find happiness. I think that there is different types of happiness. If you act justly i think that you would feel happy and peaceful but if you act unjustly i think you can be happy but you will feel guilty. Let me give examples: If a criminal doesn't act justly to his community and gets away with it he will feel happy because he didn't get caught but he will also feel guilty. I think that there is different definitions for justice and happiness but this is my definition of them.
I think that if you act justly you can find happiness but i also think that if you act unjustice you will also find happiness. I think that there is different types of happiness. If you act justly i think that you would feel happy and peaceful but if you act unjustly i think you can be happy but you will feel guilty. Let me give examples: If a criminal doesn't act justly to his community and gets away with it he will feel happy because he didn't get caught but he will also feel guilty. I think that there is different definitions for justice and happiness but this is my definition of them.
3/21 Italic paragraph
In your opinion, how can acting “right” (i.e. justly) help or harm the achievement of happiness? In your answer you need to first establish, in true Socratic fashion, what you mean by "right" (justice) and what you mean by happiness. What do you think Socrates would say about what you wrote and/or what do you think Thrasymachus would say?
I think that acting right can help and harm the achievement of happiness. For example if you aren't suppose to see your boyfriend because your mom doesn't want you to and you act wrong by disobeying her than that will bring happiness to you because you are seeing him. But at the same time you will feel guilty for acting wrong so in a way acting right will bring you happiness and peace to your heart. For me acting right means doing what you are suppose to or what you are being told to do or act. Happiness for me means a joy to your heart. Someone can bring you happiness and they make you feel zestful. I'm not sure what Socrates would say but i would think that he would disagree with me. I think that Homie T would agree with me because that would be like obeying the law, but my mom is like the law because she inforces the rules.
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
3/20 The Republic
1. What are Socrates' main arguments against the idea that justice is whatever the strong (government) says it is?
I thin k that one of the best arguments was in pp. 20 340 b. Socrates says " But having made both the assumptions he went on to admit that the stronger sometimes give orders which are not in their interest and which their weaker subjects obeys". I believe that this is a great example of a good argument because he really explains his point well. Homie T is trying to say that justice is the interest of the stronger party, injustice is the interst and the profit of oneself.
2. What are Thrasymachus' two main points and what are Socrates two main points in response?
Homie T's two main points:
1) He uses the example of a person who gets caught committing a crime and is seen as a person of wrongdoing. But when he gets away with it they see him as a lucky person.
2) He tries to prove that justice is the interst of the stronger party...
Socrates' two main points:
1) He thinks that Homie T hasn't made it clear and that he is trying to say that injustice pays better than justice.
2) He uses the example of the sheperd and how the sheperd eats the sheep he has be raising.
3) Is it ever right to harm somebody? why or why not? what would Socrates/ homie T say in response to your answer?
I think that it isn't right to kill or harm some one because its seen wrong in God's eyes. I think that Socrates would agree with me because two wrongs don't make a right. For example when a person kills some one it isn't right to kill him for that. That is how the government think that the law is right when its wrong. I think that homie T would not agree with me because he believes more in the definition of justice a sthe government says it.
I thin k that one of the best arguments was in pp. 20 340 b. Socrates says " But having made both the assumptions he went on to admit that the stronger sometimes give orders which are not in their interest and which their weaker subjects obeys". I believe that this is a great example of a good argument because he really explains his point well. Homie T is trying to say that justice is the interest of the stronger party, injustice is the interst and the profit of oneself.
2. What are Thrasymachus' two main points and what are Socrates two main points in response?
Homie T's two main points:
1) He uses the example of a person who gets caught committing a crime and is seen as a person of wrongdoing. But when he gets away with it they see him as a lucky person.
2) He tries to prove that justice is the interst of the stronger party...
Socrates' two main points:
1) He thinks that Homie T hasn't made it clear and that he is trying to say that injustice pays better than justice.
2) He uses the example of the sheperd and how the sheperd eats the sheep he has be raising.
3) Is it ever right to harm somebody? why or why not? what would Socrates/ homie T say in response to your answer?
I think that it isn't right to kill or harm some one because its seen wrong in God's eyes. I think that Socrates would agree with me because two wrongs don't make a right. For example when a person kills some one it isn't right to kill him for that. That is how the government think that the law is right when its wrong. I think that homie T would not agree with me because he believes more in the definition of justice a sthe government says it.
3/16 assignment
A) Amongst other things, Socrates strategy includes an attempt to define a friend (Section 334c-335b) and a critique of the idea that a just man can do harm (Section 335b-336a). Why did he start this line of questioning? What questions does he ask and what responses does he get that leads him to win the argument? Are his points valid and convincing?
Sacrates thinks that Polemarchus is wrong because justice is not helping your friends and hurting your enemies. He starts to give examples like the example of the war. In response Polemarchus kind of believes what Socrate sis trying to proof. I think that Socrates is convincing because he uses strong facts.
AND
B) List 3-5 of the questions that Socrates asks that you think are the most useful in arguing against Polemarchus. Why are these questions useful for Socrates purposes?
1) And what about the just man? in what activity or occupation will he best be able to help his friends and harm his enemies?
2) So is justice use ful in peace time? well then, what is the use of justice in peace time, and what do we get out of it?
3) Then will just man use their justice to make others unjust? Or , in short, will good man use their goodness to make others bad?
This questions are good for Socrates purpose because he is trying to convince Pole marchus that he is wrong and by using this question he make him think that he is wrong.
AND
C) What lesson do you think Socrates/Plato is trying to prove by having Polemarchus give in to Socrates when his father (Cephalus) would not? Short answer response
I think that the lesson that he is trying to make is that an experienced old man wouldn't give in to what Socrates thought but an inexperienced young man did because he doesn't know any better.
Sacrates thinks that Polemarchus is wrong because justice is not helping your friends and hurting your enemies. He starts to give examples like the example of the war. In response Polemarchus kind of believes what Socrate sis trying to proof. I think that Socrates is convincing because he uses strong facts.
AND
B) List 3-5 of the questions that Socrates asks that you think are the most useful in arguing against Polemarchus. Why are these questions useful for Socrates purposes?
1) And what about the just man? in what activity or occupation will he best be able to help his friends and harm his enemies?
2) So is justice use ful in peace time? well then, what is the use of justice in peace time, and what do we get out of it?
3) Then will just man use their justice to make others unjust? Or , in short, will good man use their goodness to make others bad?
This questions are good for Socrates purpose because he is trying to convince Pole marchus that he is wrong and by using this question he make him think that he is wrong.
AND
C) What lesson do you think Socrates/Plato is trying to prove by having Polemarchus give in to Socrates when his father (Cephalus) would not? Short answer response
I think that the lesson that he is trying to make is that an experienced old man wouldn't give in to what Socrates thought but an inexperienced young man did because he doesn't know any better.
Sunday, March 18, 2007
The meaning of friend
The definition of the word friend in my own words is someone who is there for you when you need them, a person that will support you through your challenges. A person who will encourage you to do better and who will never put you down. Your friend shouldn't be called your friend if they offered you drugs or any other substance that can harm you and those who love you. They should have things in common with you and strike to be successful. I think that all this things make up a friend.
Friday, March 16, 2007
3/ 16 reading assingment
Who are Cephalus and Polemarchus?
Cephalus is Polemarchus father and he is very old. Polemarchus is his son and he is a resident in Piraeus.
What is the profession of Cephalus? I'm not sure what his profession is because i don't think that it made it clear but i think that he is just like a leader who is very old is resting.
What was Cephalus doing right before the discussion that took place? He was sitting in the garlanded in a chair sacrificing in the courtyard.
According to Cephalus, what are the virtues of old age? He thinks that the family needs to respect the older people because they were the one who fought and brought fortune up. He thinks that they need peace.
What are Cephalus' view of justice?He thinks that justice is not always right it could be wrong sometimes.
What is Socrates response? He believes that telling the truth and justice is not the definition of doing right.
Do you agree with Cephalus or Sacrates? why? I agree with Cephalus because he was stronger than Scrates. I have never thought of what he made me realize.
Cephalus is Polemarchus father and he is very old. Polemarchus is his son and he is a resident in Piraeus.
What is the profession of Cephalus? I'm not sure what his profession is because i don't think that it made it clear but i think that he is just like a leader who is very old is resting.
What was Cephalus doing right before the discussion that took place? He was sitting in the garlanded in a chair sacrificing in the courtyard.
According to Cephalus, what are the virtues of old age? He thinks that the family needs to respect the older people because they were the one who fought and brought fortune up. He thinks that they need peace.
What are Cephalus' view of justice?He thinks that justice is not always right it could be wrong sometimes.
What is Socrates response? He believes that telling the truth and justice is not the definition of doing right.
Do you agree with Cephalus or Sacrates? why? I agree with Cephalus because he was stronger than Scrates. I have never thought of what he made me realize.
Thursday, March 15, 2007
3/15 simile of the cave reading question(late excused)
Compare and contrast what Socrates says in “The Simile of the Cave” with Fahrenheit 451. How are characters like Mildred similar to characters in “Simile of the Cave”?
In The "Simile of the Cave" i learned that there are a lot of similarities between the book we just read called Farenheit 451. Socrates talks about how the society just believe what the government tell them and they don't face the truth. He talks about how philosophers see the light or should i say knowledge and discover that the government is blinding their people. This part made me think of Farenheit 451. The whole book is based on the government not wanting their people to read books. If they read books they will find out the truth and that would make the society realized what they have done. It would open their eyes and they would create conflicts. That is exactly why the government does not want philosopher to become the government. In the "Simile of the Cave" there are characters who are very similar to the characters in this reading. Mildred could be compared with the people who are chained up. They don't see the truth and when they d they don't want to realize that they were actually wrong. I really enjoy reading this but i find it very confusing.
In The "Simile of the Cave" i learned that there are a lot of similarities between the book we just read called Farenheit 451. Socrates talks about how the society just believe what the government tell them and they don't face the truth. He talks about how philosophers see the light or should i say knowledge and discover that the government is blinding their people. This part made me think of Farenheit 451. The whole book is based on the government not wanting their people to read books. If they read books they will find out the truth and that would make the society realized what they have done. It would open their eyes and they would create conflicts. That is exactly why the government does not want philosopher to become the government. In the "Simile of the Cave" there are characters who are very similar to the characters in this reading. Mildred could be compared with the people who are chained up. They don't see the truth and when they d they don't want to realize that they were actually wrong. I really enjoy reading this but i find it very confusing.
Thursday, March 1, 2007
Due 3/1 Iliad section
1. What does Patroclus propose to Achilles and what is Achilles’ response? Why does Achilles grant Patroclus’ request?
Patroclus wants to fight for the greeks because Achilles has too much pride and even if he sees his men dieying he doesn't want to fight. That's why Patroclus wants to help out. Achilles agrees with him but tells hima that he has to dress like himself that way the Trojans wouldn't kill him. He also doesn't want him to conquer Troy if he isn't there. He wants to be the one who does and he is worried about his healthbecause he can get kill.
2. On p. 413 line 35 (approximately), Patroclus tells Achilles that Achilles is “cursed in [his] own courage.” What does Patroclus mean by that and do you agree with him?
What i think that he means is that Achilles pride is making him have a downfall. He is seeing his man die and he doesn't help because of his pride. I do agree with him because i think the same way.
3. My question is why or how did Achilles join the Greeks?
Patroclus wants to fight for the greeks because Achilles has too much pride and even if he sees his men dieying he doesn't want to fight. That's why Patroclus wants to help out. Achilles agrees with him but tells hima that he has to dress like himself that way the Trojans wouldn't kill him. He also doesn't want him to conquer Troy if he isn't there. He wants to be the one who does and he is worried about his healthbecause he can get kill.
2. On p. 413 line 35 (approximately), Patroclus tells Achilles that Achilles is “cursed in [his] own courage.” What does Patroclus mean by that and do you agree with him?
What i think that he means is that Achilles pride is making him have a downfall. He is seeing his man die and he doesn't help because of his pride. I do agree with him because i think the same way.
3. My question is why or how did Achilles join the Greeks?
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